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thoughts on rin as a character and her relationship with sakura
Okay Rin kind of has... three personas she puts up first off. I like to think of them as separate because for me it makes her easier to play.
Idol Rin: This is the Rin I have the most trouble with considering it has the least amount of canon material. The prologue where it's narrated by Rin is the best example of Idol Rin though. This is the Rin that shows up at school and the one people are most likely to know of. She's polite but incredibly cold and stoic. She comes off as the perfect student. Rin's good at acting though to give an example Shirou was fucking blown away at the beginning of fsn because he was like WHY IS RIN ACTING LIKE THIS WHERE IS THAT SCHOOL IDOL? He's literally flabbergasted by it.
But like I said I'm still pinning this one down. It's hard to do because of the lack of canon material but just remember that she's likely to be guarded about personal information and other things like that.
Magus Rin: This is the Rin that is 'acting as a Magus' and the Rin we see A LOT in Heaven's Feel. I mean well... okay, think of it like this. In the Magic world Rin is actually a pretty fucking important person. Her father is dead and her mother is alive but insane (and also her mother isn't a magus). The Tohsaka family is the magical family that is in charge of Fuyuki City. Which means basically if anything happens in that whole town that's considered a magical disaster Rin is the one that's responsible for cleaning that shit up. Yeah, a teenage girl is responsible for a whole town. Not just any town though, really. It's the town that the Holy Grail War takes place in.
Going into her family a bit more her ancestor, Nagato Tohsaka, was a student of Zeltrich. Even though that was six generations ago and Nagato was considered the least promising of all of Zeltrich's students Rin is STILL automatically guaranteed a place at the Magic Association. That isn't even considering the fact that Rin is one of the Average Ones which is like... so incredibly rare to be born with that element alignment. This is really to the point where the Magic Association is begging Rin to come study there and she's even able to take Shirou with her in end of UBW. I MEAN REALLY. Fate/Stay Night doesn't make it quite clear but Rin is a person of interest in the magical world.
Rin was also raised pretty strictly by her father too and at the time of the 4th grail war when her Father died Rin became the head of the Tohsaka family. This was ten years ago so she was turning seven when she inherited all of this responsibility. (Rin's birthday falls on the Holy Grail War; she's 16 and then turns 17 during.) Also, In general, magi are expected to act... very cold and calculated. It's kind of a general rule of thumb that they act only in the interests of their families and aren't really people to trust.
All of this makes Rin put on the persona of a very cold and calculating person when she decides she needs to act as a Magus to take care of a situation. Like I said this is really really shown clearly in Heaven's Feel where Rin says that she considers Sakura her enemy BUT I'LL GO MORE INTO THAT IN A BIT.
An important part to remember too is that Rin's magus personality isn't full proof and she does break it. Rin makes small mistakes when it really matters because she is slightly incompetent. The biggest example I can think of when Rin's magus personality cracks is when she saves Shirou at the beginning of the game. Rin had no reason to do it. As a Magus it was a dumb decision since anyone who sees the Holy Grail War take place is supposed to die. This is why Archer protests and speaks up about Rin doing this. Even if it was something a good person should do it wasn't something a Magus would have done. In that way Rin is actually a really good person.
And of course there's when Rin hugs Sakura instead of stabbing her with a Jewel Sword but hurr going into that more later too!
True Rin: Whelp, kind of went into this above too but yeah. Rin is actually a big doof. This is the Rin Shirou sees quite a bit in UBW as well as sometimes during Heaven's Feel. The phone calls Rin has with Shirou in HF are a good example of what Rin is really like since I'm trying to give HF examples here sob.
See while Rin acts like all of the above when she doesn't NEED to act like anything she's a slacker, slob, and a bully. She's also rather fun loving too as she admits in UBW that the only reason she did her Magus training was because she thought it was fun. If she thought it was a pain in the neck she probably wouldn't have done it. BUT YEAH Rin is the kind of person that sleeps in and on the weekends she probably lazes around in her jammies all day. She's also hard to wake in the morning and stumbles around in a half asleep daze for a couple of hours.
For the bully/tsundere part well that's also pretty... well shown through the series. She likes picking on Shirou but she also has feelings for him no matter what route we're in. She simply puts her feelings aside for either Saber or Sakura depending on the route. RIN REALLY IS A GOOD PERSON.
I won't say any more since this is the part that everyone is overly familiar with. :V
Now for Rin and Sakura's relationship. OH BOY.
I guess talking about their past with a bit of fate/zero info thrown in will help here. Thing is for every magical family there's no need to raise two people to inherit the family name. It's not that uncommon to adopt out the second child but some magical families keep the second child and raise them normally. The thing that really bothered people about Sakura being adopted into the Matou family is because while people didn't know exactly what was up the Matou family's practices are frowned upon. From my understanding Mama Tohsaka was actually really upset when Sakura was adopted away but she is a very passive person (kind of like Sakura herself) so she didn't say anything to her hubby.
Papa Tohsaka was the one that arranged Sakura to be adopted. And to be honest, as a Magus, it was something he just did as an obligation to a family he had an alliance with. Through Zero people would ask him why he adopted Sakura out (his personal feelings) and they'd be something along the lines of "I don't need an extra burden around the house." This is actually a lie. His real reason for giving Sakura away was because well... Rin was born as an Average One and Sakura was born with Imaginary Numbers. He didn't have the resources to raise both as magi but he was afraid if one of them wasn't raised as a magi they would be taken advantage of by the wrong people. So really even if Papa Tohsaka refused to say it out loud he really did care about both if his daughters. This actually Mirrors Rin's personality pretty well during HF as I think Rin is a lot like her dad.
I don't know where to fit this in but as a side note Rin gives Sakura her hair ribbon sometime before Sakura is adopted away. This ribbon is important to mention :V
ANYWAY when Sakura was adopted into the Matou household she started her training the very first day. We know this because in Heaven's Feel she says that the day she was adopted was the day she lost her virginity. (Which is actually creepy as fuck, Sakura was five years old.) As Sakura was subject to the pain and torture of her training she began to hate two people: Zouken and her Father. Of course, Zouken wanted her to hate him and whoever else because Zouken was planning on using her own negative feelings as a weapon of mass destruction. Sakura also knew she had a sister
On Rin's side she faced painful and intense Magus training as well although it wasn't traumatizing like Sakura's training was. She was also raised with the mindset that the Matou family was the Tohsaka families enemies. On the day that Sakura left Rin was told that Sakura was no longer her sister and to treat her like an enemy from that day forward. That was, of course, the professional standpoint of the Tohsaka family.
When the two started going to school together they did see each other sometimes. Although they really never talked to each other unless it was necessary.
On Sakura's side she really really admired Rin. Like... a lot. But she figures that she comes off as invisible to Rin and Sakura things that Rin dislikes her. There's also that seed of doubt there considering Rin never bursted into the Matou household to save her. Although at this point I really don't think Sakura hates Rin because she's always looking for her approval in the beginning parts of Heaven's Feel.
Now for Rin's side! Rin always loved Sakura but to be frank as a tsundere Rin has trouble expressing her feelings for others. Although Rin goes to the Archery Club to watch Sakura shoot she mentions being worried about her because Sakura never smiled. However, as a magus, Rin couldn't become closer to her sister. Rin holds her father in the highest regard and follows all of his instructions until very late in Heaven's Feel. So she's still really reluctant at this point to break her father's instructions. I think Rin also feels like Sakura might dislike her but her insecurities are nowhere near as strong as Sakura's.
Skipping on head to what happens in Heaven's Feel. All of the stuff before this was pre-canon sobsob my life. Some of this HF stuff is just my assumptions and how I feel about it and it's up to different interpretations, really. But I think my take on things also makes quite a bit of sense!
Okay so honestly the most important thing to remember during HF for Sakura is Angra Maniyu and Penis worms. Sakura is not yandere; this is the angra's influence. She does not masturbate to Shirou willingly; this is the penis worms. A lot of what happens to Sakura emotionally during HF is because her emotions are all out of whack because of what Zouken did to her.
The first part I want to touch on is the part where Sakura struggles with calling Rin Nee-san instead of Tohsaka Senpai is super super important to both of them because you can tell that they sincerely like each other. Sakura is just nervous about calling Rin Nee-san because she's afraid that she'll be rejected. Rin likes being called Nee-san by Sakura but she's so shocked by it because in general Rin has a hard time dealing with her feelings in the present time. (I told you she's tsundere for Sakura.)
When it comes to the church scene: from Rin's perspective, Sakura is a danger to the whole town. Now let's consider what we've said about Magus!Rin already. She's responsible for Fuyuki town and she's supposed to regard Sakura as her enemy. So the church scene where Rin says she wouldn't hesitate to kill Sakura, while heartless, it's really the only logical choice someone in her position can make. Magi are supposed to have a very 'means justify the end' mentality and in a Magus' opinion she shouldn't even let Sakura get back enough to where she would be a threat. I'm not saying this is morally correct of Rin but it is very logical.
However when Sakura hears this she thinks that her fears about Rin hating her were true. In return she begins to hate and feel jealous towards Rin. Part of this is because Rin and Shirou do have crushes on each other. Depsite the fact that both Shirou and Rin are oblivious to it it's something that Sakura picks up on very easily. Normal people get jealous but thanks to angra maniyu's influence Sakura gets jealous to the point of hatred. She starts ignoring Shirou's obvious love for her and focuses her attention on Rin.
When Sakura's finally had enough she runs back home, looks for Zouken, kills Shinji, and becomes Dark Sakura. Skip forward just a bit and we get to the Sakura and Rin fight scene which is the highlight for their characterization.
Okay so the two fight and in the middle of it they go into dialogue mode. When Sakura hears that Rin had a tough upbringing in the Tohsaka family she falters a bit. Sakura was busy thinking about and pitying herself where she didn't even think about Rin's position. Rin also admits that she never thought about how bad it was on Sakura. Yes, that kind of does make Rin very insensitive but to be honest I think that's just one of Rin's major character faults. No character is perfect and if Rin wasn't so insensitive the route might have not ever happened. And we can't have that.
So really I think both of them are at fault in a way. Rin is insensitive to what happened to Sakura before she realizes that she can't stab Sakura with the jewel sword. Sakura never stopped to think about that Rin was in a tight situation and she also completely forgot about Shirou's love for her. Although the true blame really rests on Zouken's hands for being a scumbag. Rin and Sakura in the end are victims here. Yes, Rin is too, although she's more of a victim of circumstance than anything else.
Rin goes to kill Sakura but before she can stab her Rin realizes she can't do it. This is where Rin understands her faults. She understands that she makes a better girl instead of an excellent magus. Sakura even stabs Rin as a reflex and Rin still holds onto and hugs Sakura. Tearjerker moment happens. Sakura realizes that she was wrong about Rin and she remembered the love she feels for her Senpai. Then Shirou comes in and saves Sakura, all is right with the world.
True end shows that the two sisters are finally on good terms and that they really love each other. They forgive each other and even if they live apart with Rin at the Mages Association you can really tell how much they care about each other. Rin even says that the most important question she has to ask Sakura is if she is happy. Rin has also given up her feelings for Shirou so Sakura can be with him which is awesome of Rin. I'd also argue that without Rin hugging Sakura at the end it would have been impossible for Shirou to save Sakura. Sakura thinking she killed Rin allowed her to resist enough to let Shirou stab her with the Rule Breaker.
AND THAT'S IT HUFF HUFF shit I'm like characterization master over here or some shit.
Idol Rin: This is the Rin I have the most trouble with considering it has the least amount of canon material. The prologue where it's narrated by Rin is the best example of Idol Rin though. This is the Rin that shows up at school and the one people are most likely to know of. She's polite but incredibly cold and stoic. She comes off as the perfect student. Rin's good at acting though to give an example Shirou was fucking blown away at the beginning of fsn because he was like WHY IS RIN ACTING LIKE THIS WHERE IS THAT SCHOOL IDOL? He's literally flabbergasted by it.
But like I said I'm still pinning this one down. It's hard to do because of the lack of canon material but just remember that she's likely to be guarded about personal information and other things like that.
Magus Rin: This is the Rin that is 'acting as a Magus' and the Rin we see A LOT in Heaven's Feel. I mean well... okay, think of it like this. In the Magic world Rin is actually a pretty fucking important person. Her father is dead and her mother is alive but insane (and also her mother isn't a magus). The Tohsaka family is the magical family that is in charge of Fuyuki City. Which means basically if anything happens in that whole town that's considered a magical disaster Rin is the one that's responsible for cleaning that shit up. Yeah, a teenage girl is responsible for a whole town. Not just any town though, really. It's the town that the Holy Grail War takes place in.
Going into her family a bit more her ancestor, Nagato Tohsaka, was a student of Zeltrich. Even though that was six generations ago and Nagato was considered the least promising of all of Zeltrich's students Rin is STILL automatically guaranteed a place at the Magic Association. That isn't even considering the fact that Rin is one of the Average Ones which is like... so incredibly rare to be born with that element alignment. This is really to the point where the Magic Association is begging Rin to come study there and she's even able to take Shirou with her in end of UBW. I MEAN REALLY. Fate/Stay Night doesn't make it quite clear but Rin is a person of interest in the magical world.
Rin was also raised pretty strictly by her father too and at the time of the 4th grail war when her Father died Rin became the head of the Tohsaka family. This was ten years ago so she was turning seven when she inherited all of this responsibility. (Rin's birthday falls on the Holy Grail War; she's 16 and then turns 17 during.) Also, In general, magi are expected to act... very cold and calculated. It's kind of a general rule of thumb that they act only in the interests of their families and aren't really people to trust.
All of this makes Rin put on the persona of a very cold and calculating person when she decides she needs to act as a Magus to take care of a situation. Like I said this is really really shown clearly in Heaven's Feel where Rin says that she considers Sakura her enemy BUT I'LL GO MORE INTO THAT IN A BIT.
An important part to remember too is that Rin's magus personality isn't full proof and she does break it. Rin makes small mistakes when it really matters because she is slightly incompetent. The biggest example I can think of when Rin's magus personality cracks is when she saves Shirou at the beginning of the game. Rin had no reason to do it. As a Magus it was a dumb decision since anyone who sees the Holy Grail War take place is supposed to die. This is why Archer protests and speaks up about Rin doing this. Even if it was something a good person should do it wasn't something a Magus would have done. In that way Rin is actually a really good person.
And of course there's when Rin hugs Sakura instead of stabbing her with a Jewel Sword but hurr going into that more later too!
True Rin: Whelp, kind of went into this above too but yeah. Rin is actually a big doof. This is the Rin Shirou sees quite a bit in UBW as well as sometimes during Heaven's Feel. The phone calls Rin has with Shirou in HF are a good example of what Rin is really like since I'm trying to give HF examples here sob.
See while Rin acts like all of the above when she doesn't NEED to act like anything she's a slacker, slob, and a bully. She's also rather fun loving too as she admits in UBW that the only reason she did her Magus training was because she thought it was fun. If she thought it was a pain in the neck she probably wouldn't have done it. BUT YEAH Rin is the kind of person that sleeps in and on the weekends she probably lazes around in her jammies all day. She's also hard to wake in the morning and stumbles around in a half asleep daze for a couple of hours.
For the bully/tsundere part well that's also pretty... well shown through the series. She likes picking on Shirou but she also has feelings for him no matter what route we're in. She simply puts her feelings aside for either Saber or Sakura depending on the route. RIN REALLY IS A GOOD PERSON.
I won't say any more since this is the part that everyone is overly familiar with. :V
Now for Rin and Sakura's relationship. OH BOY.
I guess talking about their past with a bit of fate/zero info thrown in will help here. Thing is for every magical family there's no need to raise two people to inherit the family name. It's not that uncommon to adopt out the second child but some magical families keep the second child and raise them normally. The thing that really bothered people about Sakura being adopted into the Matou family is because while people didn't know exactly what was up the Matou family's practices are frowned upon. From my understanding Mama Tohsaka was actually really upset when Sakura was adopted away but she is a very passive person (kind of like Sakura herself) so she didn't say anything to her hubby.
Papa Tohsaka was the one that arranged Sakura to be adopted. And to be honest, as a Magus, it was something he just did as an obligation to a family he had an alliance with. Through Zero people would ask him why he adopted Sakura out (his personal feelings) and they'd be something along the lines of "I don't need an extra burden around the house." This is actually a lie. His real reason for giving Sakura away was because well... Rin was born as an Average One and Sakura was born with Imaginary Numbers. He didn't have the resources to raise both as magi but he was afraid if one of them wasn't raised as a magi they would be taken advantage of by the wrong people. So really even if Papa Tohsaka refused to say it out loud he really did care about both if his daughters. This actually Mirrors Rin's personality pretty well during HF as I think Rin is a lot like her dad.
I don't know where to fit this in but as a side note Rin gives Sakura her hair ribbon sometime before Sakura is adopted away. This ribbon is important to mention :V
ANYWAY when Sakura was adopted into the Matou household she started her training the very first day. We know this because in Heaven's Feel she says that the day she was adopted was the day she lost her virginity. (Which is actually creepy as fuck, Sakura was five years old.) As Sakura was subject to the pain and torture of her training she began to hate two people: Zouken and her Father. Of course, Zouken wanted her to hate him and whoever else because Zouken was planning on using her own negative feelings as a weapon of mass destruction. Sakura also knew she had a sister
On Rin's side she faced painful and intense Magus training as well although it wasn't traumatizing like Sakura's training was. She was also raised with the mindset that the Matou family was the Tohsaka families enemies. On the day that Sakura left Rin was told that Sakura was no longer her sister and to treat her like an enemy from that day forward. That was, of course, the professional standpoint of the Tohsaka family.
When the two started going to school together they did see each other sometimes. Although they really never talked to each other unless it was necessary.
On Sakura's side she really really admired Rin. Like... a lot. But she figures that she comes off as invisible to Rin and Sakura things that Rin dislikes her. There's also that seed of doubt there considering Rin never bursted into the Matou household to save her. Although at this point I really don't think Sakura hates Rin because she's always looking for her approval in the beginning parts of Heaven's Feel.
Now for Rin's side! Rin always loved Sakura but to be frank as a tsundere Rin has trouble expressing her feelings for others. Although Rin goes to the Archery Club to watch Sakura shoot she mentions being worried about her because Sakura never smiled. However, as a magus, Rin couldn't become closer to her sister. Rin holds her father in the highest regard and follows all of his instructions until very late in Heaven's Feel. So she's still really reluctant at this point to break her father's instructions. I think Rin also feels like Sakura might dislike her but her insecurities are nowhere near as strong as Sakura's.
Skipping on head to what happens in Heaven's Feel. All of the stuff before this was pre-canon sobsob my life. Some of this HF stuff is just my assumptions and how I feel about it and it's up to different interpretations, really. But I think my take on things also makes quite a bit of sense!
Okay so honestly the most important thing to remember during HF for Sakura is Angra Maniyu and Penis worms. Sakura is not yandere; this is the angra's influence. She does not masturbate to Shirou willingly; this is the penis worms. A lot of what happens to Sakura emotionally during HF is because her emotions are all out of whack because of what Zouken did to her.
The first part I want to touch on is the part where Sakura struggles with calling Rin Nee-san instead of Tohsaka Senpai is super super important to both of them because you can tell that they sincerely like each other. Sakura is just nervous about calling Rin Nee-san because she's afraid that she'll be rejected. Rin likes being called Nee-san by Sakura but she's so shocked by it because in general Rin has a hard time dealing with her feelings in the present time. (I told you she's tsundere for Sakura.)
When it comes to the church scene: from Rin's perspective, Sakura is a danger to the whole town. Now let's consider what we've said about Magus!Rin already. She's responsible for Fuyuki town and she's supposed to regard Sakura as her enemy. So the church scene where Rin says she wouldn't hesitate to kill Sakura, while heartless, it's really the only logical choice someone in her position can make. Magi are supposed to have a very 'means justify the end' mentality and in a Magus' opinion she shouldn't even let Sakura get back enough to where she would be a threat. I'm not saying this is morally correct of Rin but it is very logical.
However when Sakura hears this she thinks that her fears about Rin hating her were true. In return she begins to hate and feel jealous towards Rin. Part of this is because Rin and Shirou do have crushes on each other. Depsite the fact that both Shirou and Rin are oblivious to it it's something that Sakura picks up on very easily. Normal people get jealous but thanks to angra maniyu's influence Sakura gets jealous to the point of hatred. She starts ignoring Shirou's obvious love for her and focuses her attention on Rin.
When Sakura's finally had enough she runs back home, looks for Zouken, kills Shinji, and becomes Dark Sakura. Skip forward just a bit and we get to the Sakura and Rin fight scene which is the highlight for their characterization.
Okay so the two fight and in the middle of it they go into dialogue mode. When Sakura hears that Rin had a tough upbringing in the Tohsaka family she falters a bit. Sakura was busy thinking about and pitying herself where she didn't even think about Rin's position. Rin also admits that she never thought about how bad it was on Sakura. Yes, that kind of does make Rin very insensitive but to be honest I think that's just one of Rin's major character faults. No character is perfect and if Rin wasn't so insensitive the route might have not ever happened. And we can't have that.
So really I think both of them are at fault in a way. Rin is insensitive to what happened to Sakura before she realizes that she can't stab Sakura with the jewel sword. Sakura never stopped to think about that Rin was in a tight situation and she also completely forgot about Shirou's love for her. Although the true blame really rests on Zouken's hands for being a scumbag. Rin and Sakura in the end are victims here. Yes, Rin is too, although she's more of a victim of circumstance than anything else.
Rin goes to kill Sakura but before she can stab her Rin realizes she can't do it. This is where Rin understands her faults. She understands that she makes a better girl instead of an excellent magus. Sakura even stabs Rin as a reflex and Rin still holds onto and hugs Sakura. Tearjerker moment happens. Sakura realizes that she was wrong about Rin and she remembered the love she feels for her Senpai. Then Shirou comes in and saves Sakura, all is right with the world.
True end shows that the two sisters are finally on good terms and that they really love each other. They forgive each other and even if they live apart with Rin at the Mages Association you can really tell how much they care about each other. Rin even says that the most important question she has to ask Sakura is if she is happy. Rin has also given up her feelings for Shirou so Sakura can be with him which is awesome of Rin. I'd also argue that without Rin hugging Sakura at the end it would have been impossible for Shirou to save Sakura. Sakura thinking she killed Rin allowed her to resist enough to let Shirou stab her with the Rule Breaker.
AND THAT'S IT HUFF HUFF shit I'm like characterization master over here or some shit.
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I AM SURE I WILL HAVE A LOT MORE TO SAY SOON ENOUGH. This was such a big help for today though and I really appreciate your interpretation of it.
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